The Cause of the Conflict

Livin

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What has happened in this world?

Given what little bits of the narrative we were provided in the welcome package video, humanity triggered this conflict through direct and/or indirect actions as a result of corruption from within. What do you think those actions were?

In Blood Omen the vampire Kain slaughtered all the human guardians of the pillars, what sustained the life of the land, because they became corrupt and were twisting the world as they saw fit. A similar situation could be going on here.

Perhaps the human population has exploded and started expanding into the other's territories, now seeking to conquer them under the false pretense of a holy war.


What do you think the reason could be for this war?
 

Golden Xan

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Setting this up was a great idea, this is something we all can enjoy talking about.
I gave it some thought and came up with some theories for this.

Theory #1

The living and the undead all belong to the same universe. They have conflicting natures.
For whatever reason, either the living have a prejudice against the dead, or the dead have a kind of prejudice against the living, or both. Maybe the living have no regard for the undead's space, or they have been weakening the life source of the undead, or they want to use them as slaves, or they have been contributing too much to the rise of undead and their population is overgrowing. Hahahha... In any case, their differences is enough that they can't stand each other. Pure hate motivates their fighting.
Theory #2
The living and the undead all belong to the same universe. The living sought to control and use the undead.
For whatever reason, and in whatever manner, the living found a way to control the undead. Either through necromancy, or the use of artifacts or magick, or both. They have this power and they decided to use it, either to gain more power, or to fight against each other, or simply because they could. The undead might resent being manipulated like this, and have sought a way to free themselves.
Theory #3
The living and the undead belong to different universes. The living brought the undead to their realm.
Perhaps to use them as a weapon, as slaves, as a plague, it doesn't matter. Someone used the world's power, in the form of artifacts, magick and material manipulation, to give birth to the first undead, thinking they could control them. But they couldn't, and the undead eventually gained sentience--or strengthened their sentience--over time and decided that they deserved better than be subjugated by the living... and thus, revolted against them.
Theory #4
The living and the undead belong to different universes. The undead invaded the realm of the living.
Perhaps the undead belonged to their own realm, but in their lust for power, they invaded the realms of men to seek more meatbags to strengthen their armies and continue to fight against each other.
Theory #5
The undead are actually just a variant of the living.
Perhaps the undead are not so different from the living. Perhaps they have the same humble beginnings, but they were transformed or cursed in some way to live as a different kind of sentient creature. That is often the case of Werewolves or Vampires. Perhaps the different human families in the land, in their quest for power and control, cursed each other (or themselves!) with many plagues and maladies, and each of them acquired mutations over time that transformed them into different kinds of undead: the Liches, the Revenants, etc. They might hate each other for their differences or for having being cursed by each other, or they might simply hate themselves because of their past, or even for their current reality.
Theory #6
The undead are a phenomenon of the world.
Perhaps the game's world created the undead in some manner. Perhaps the artifacts and the magick that powers many anomalies and phenomena of the world have also created the undead. If that's the case, the humans might have tried to use or consume the magick and artifacts that powered their undead existence, and that might be killing them. This is reason enough for them to fight each other.

Those are my theories for the reasons why they fight.
 

Golden Xan

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I believe that the real reason might be a mixture of some of those theories, and more. From the Founders page, we can get a few quotes from loose bits of the lore. Perhaps they have some connection:

Vampire Scholar:

The Warlord Zorin spoke first, “Baron Aoric, it is so nice to meet you.”​
“I had expected to treat with Lord Ngaztak; I am afraid I don’t remember you,” responded Baron Aoric indignantly.​
“You will remember one thing as the bite of my sword severs your head from your body: Vae Victus. Expect no quarter for your transgressions; we will grind your pitiful empire into dust,” said Zorin who moved faster than the eye could and severed the Baron’s head from its body.​
Holding the Baron’s head in the air, Zorin the Vampire Scholar proclaimed, “Alas, poor Aoric, I knew him well; well, not really.”​
7:08 Words
Opening Salutations at Peace Negotiations of Strallohn
Zorin, The Blood Baron and Vampire Scholar
Herald of the Dead:
Brothers and Sisters, you have been sleepwalking through your entire existence. You do not know even who you are or whence you came. Open your mind’s eye and find yourself, for you are not a thing. There is a truth and a power to you that they cannot fathom.​
Take control and have power over those who covet you. Allow me to instruct you in the ways of magicks and speak pure truth to those you despise. To understand true names is to have power:​
power to overcome,​
power to overthrow,​
and power to dominate.​
3:12 – The Scrolls Of Lamentations
Tozsi, The Truth Bearer, Herald of the Dead and Liche Sage

Malleous Odium:

Studying the schools of thought around the Sacred Trinity is wise. Indeed, the physical, the magickal, and essential are a worthy foundation to build upon, but this is not the path I exhort. Many are those who assault my character as being solely driven by hatred, and although I will not deny that hatred exists within me, I believe it is misguided to dismiss my philosophy as mere rhetoric.​
Hear me. We are in a time where everyone lies. Layer upon layer of deception compounds the consciousness to the point where there are so many mistruths that the average individual cannot deal with the cognitive weight of the deception and eventually succumbs to despair and tyranny. There is no hope for the truth has been lost.​
Follow me and let the truth be a weapon. We will cut through the lies and show them the way.​
We will kill them all.​
3:7 – The Scrolls Of Lamentations
Ngaztak, The Leader of the Black Right Hand, Malleus Odium and Revenant Poet

Immortal Legacy:

The Stars Align
See through the great throng
I seek revenge by Deadhaus might
The Gate Consigned
Bind one devious and strong
Animus through most ominous rite
The Way Opines
Tsathoggua, hear my song
My enemies must die by dawn’s light
Fateful Spell of Summoning
In the year 697 Before Deadhaus

The Vampire Scholar bit supports that the undead have had some conflict between them. The Malleous Odium and the Herald of the Dead bits might support a religious and/or historical motivation for them to fight.
 

Livin

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"Justice is not a thing to be Forsaken. Even death cannot still it's hand."
-Varric the Destroyer

Quoted from the teaser trailer.

This along with the flavor text from the founders does suggests that this may be a form of retribution against humanity, for what though is the question.
 
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Livin

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One detail about the narrative I missed is despite being the undead, our goal in this game is also to save the world.

"A grim fantasy ARPG where only the darkest beings can save the world from the rot and decay of a millennium of human malfeasance."
 
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Kefka1134

Newly Dead
I'm sure there are completely official lore based reasons and stuff like that at this point.

However, this is a thought that occurred to me and I have no idea if it co crosses over with the present....

But I feel like maybe it does to an extent.... so this isn't really long but here goes....

Basically I feel like we've evolved society wise and I'm speaking IRL to where people feel there are fwee fewer challenges... as in it's not about war and politics
as much as it is about just living... what's the next big thing? Longevity IMO... the older/elder generation in America etc feels strongly they conquered the planet and now
they're focused on how to live in it....

For some of us, the basic idea that they conquered the planet is odd because if I go to I don't know Namibia or someplace off the path or perhaps Niagra Canada
it seems to me everyone is living basically normally and happy and weren't all influenced by America necessarily in recent times one way or another.

And living ethically and well and non-controversially.

But that's just it, that's not what the elite in America want now they want immortality.

So I think they're setting up just enough conflict for everyone to kinda have what they want and then t we're all going to compete over death.

That is to say, theres a team living and tema team dead rather....

And people know it... there's the feel in interaction... oh your going to die... oh your going to live quite a while etc... possibly in time for some great solution
but it's more generic just longevity.

Silicon Knights is clearly team dead, nerds, oilder, older rather, there aren't thousands of views of everything etc per se (although they're kinda now are I think)

People in say I don't know California (ahem) or other regions are clearly team living... destined for greatness....

But I just.... hate these distinctions myself.... does it even help?

So I like the idea of a team dead and team living but I also like the idea of a less fatalistic team present... I don't know if we can get 3 factions in the game.... it's not clear whether they are living or dead... all that anyone knows is they aren't officially associated with either side.

But I think it could be kinda interesting... I think team dead is more a frame of mind in that place... like your pessimistic... you like to be on the downside
looking up to someone that you suspect has a horrible fate... and team living is people that don't mind the spotlight and actually dont' like the reverse....

The old framework of like blue and red and stuff still has meaning but this is clearly the zeitgeist IMO... are you lurking in the sahdows with the weaker
pedigree but with a clear plan for your victory or are you in the sun and you don't mind meeting the challenges head on whatever they are....

Hm, well sort of just my own spin here but I thought about it with the whole living vs dead idea I guess.
 
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Denis Dyack

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This is a great thread! There are many things in play around the Deadhaus, and these are some interesting theories on the Rise of Deadhaus. The story starts thousands and thousands of years before the Rise of Deadhaus and many great powers are at play.

Previously, I would have held back with story details, but I am considering rolling some of these details out much earlier - as an example a few critical events that happened 25,000 years before Deadhaus (BHS). We have many ideas for community participation, and this might be a great way to kick it off. There is a short little piece written called "Seven Suns in Twilight" that I could drop for the community.

Is this something you would all want, or do you want us to hold back?

Please let me know.
 

Denis Dyack

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Staff member
Cat Adopter
I definitely am interested in knowing more about the game, in every way you can tell us. Be it lore, development, gameplay, ideas, concept... Everything.

Pray, how is it, in thy mind, that we should participate?
Good to know. We have some radical ideas for the world building that I think should really excite the community allowing for gamers to directly contribute to the narrative and story of Deadhaus Sonata.

I will wait to have a few more people chime in to see what the consensus in on this topic :)
 

Calypso

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@Denis Dyack YES GIVE US STORY!!

all these theories are great to hear.

I agree in that yeah maybe most of the dead are just variants of the living. I mean cmon you have a vampire scholar for crying out loud!
however it might be that the living are the cause for the dead? if that makes sense. You have liches and in most cases liches are just the raw magical energy of a dead wizard.
so it could be that, the wizards in this world of DHS strive for magical perfection and in doing so to reach that goal they call upon dark arts and inevitably becomes liches. It is similar to how Jedi in acquiring true mastery of The Force become a Force Ghost...only in this case its a demonic looking hell spawn creature who is so attuned to the arcane they crated another body or possesed a dead body to continue that work.

It also could be that each of the dead maybe help each other? liches probably helped create revenants? vampires might be Nectrotic like Kain was created
or the traditional blood variant.
either way the story being the dead saving the world, most likely i feel its a cleansing. there is no black and white and the humans becoming so corrupt and perhaps more evil than the monsters they call evil, is a good cause to drink them dry while talking poetry.
 
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Lowlife

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Good to know. We have some radical ideas for the world building that I think should really excite the community allowing for gamers to directly contribute to the narrative and story of Deadhaus Sonata.

I will wait to have a few more people chime in to see what the consensus in on this topic :)
This is a great thread! There are many things in play around the Deadhaus, and these are some interesting theories on the Rise of Deadhaus. The story starts thousands and thousands of years before the Rise of Deadhaus and many great powers are at play.

Previously, I would have held back with story details, but I am considering rolling some of these details out much earlier - as an example a few critical events that happened 25,000 years before Deadhaus (BHS). We have many ideas for community participation, and this might be a great way to kick it off. There is a short little piece written called "Seven Suns in Twilight" that I could drop for the community.

Is this something you would all want, or do you want us to hold back?

Please let me know.
PLZ YES
 
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Livin

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I'd love this, I'm always for story telling and it be awesome if we had some small impact at any level. I know you said in the interview you've been more focused on world building than character narrative and I have no doubt you got people working who are the opposite to give us the whole package, but for us to have some measure of input on the story aspect would be incredible.

Edit
25000 years! I'm now wondering if those ten symbols within the cosmology represent eras in time. An era where each of the houses reined supreme before their collapse and this is the age of men but they screwed it up so badly that what remains of the predecessors see it as an opportunity for their return to supremacy.
 
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iantroll.wixsite.com
Theory #1 and theory #6 could go hand in hand with each other. Undead could come back from the dead, some for more dark reasons some for better reasons. Some come back being able to reason, some are mindless and seek blood or flesh. The living could brand all undead with the brush of being mindless evil and the sentient undead could hold a large grudge against the living for both indiscriminately killing sentient and mindless undead.
 

Livin

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Theory #1 and theory #6 could go hand in hand with each other. Undead could come back from the dead, some for more dark reasons some for better reasons. Some come back being able to reason, some are mindless and seek blood or flesh. The living could brand all undead with the brush of being mindless evil and the sentient undead could hold a large grudge against the living for both indiscriminately killing sentient and mindless undead.
I kind of hope there is a different motivations for each class faction, from fighting in defense of their very existence, to replenish their numbers, and to fighting out of the desire for supremacy.

Like I think I heard one of the classes (I think the wights) is a water associated undead and I have this grand history in my head where these are what remains of an Atlantian society. Only instead of turning into mermaids after their civilization sank into the deep they just died and they now live on as undead within their sunken city. They only leave the city and the waters it resides in to ensure their numbers by dragging their victims into the deep to be turned, the lucky victims being the ones that die before being taken beneath the water.
 

Golden Xan

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Could it be that each class represents a separate house? Could it mean that every class hate each other as well?
 
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iantroll.wixsite.com
Could it be that each class represents a separate house? Could it mean that every class hate each other as well?
That wouldn't make much sense considering the game is Co-op, other undead classes could play with the others. It could be they tolerate each other, or just mutual hatred against the living bring them together. But we do know there is a main city, so unless it's like R.A Salvatore's Drow society I don't think undead really hate each other.
 

Livin

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Could it be that each class represents a separate house? Could it mean that every class hate each other as well?
It's possible there was a rivalry among them. They might have even been fighting each other within the lands of deadhaus before uniting against humanity and there could still be some degree of hostility between them as they tolerate one another.
 
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Calypso

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There is rivavly amongthe houses. It’s briefly mentioned in one of the interviews denis did and they unite to take on humanity. Nosgoths background lore had a similar thing. All the clans hate each other but they join up to subjugate humanity again.

For the wights faction all I think of is GOT naturally being an Ice based enemy but I can see water being a thing. A bunch of undead rising up out of the water like in pirates of the Caribbean movies. Man that’s be cool as a teleport move too. Jump in a puddle and sink, emerge from another one across the map of your choice
 

Livin

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There is rivavly amongthe houses. It’s briefly mentioned in one of the interviews denis did and they unite to take on humanity. Nosgoths background lore had a similar thing. All the clans hate each other but they join up to subjugate humanity again.

For the wights faction all I think of is GOT naturally being an Ice based enemy but I can see water being a thing. A bunch of undead rising up out of the water like in pirates of the Caribbean movies. Man that’s be cool as a teleport move too. Jump in a puddle and sink, emerge from another one across the map of your choice

A fellow Nosgothian :), it still hurts when I look back on what was and could have been; but I have high hopes that this will help finally lay that pain to rest. I'm hoping for some witty banter between them, some playful back and forth.

Vampire: "Do you ever miss being able to enjoy the pleasures that flesh can provide, you walking tower of marrow?"

Lich: "Flesh also brings pain; and exacting that pain brings me all the pleasure I could ever need, no matter the sac of flesh it should be delivered upon."

Can't believe I didn't think of GOT when it comes to the wights, especially with how much this final season has been pissing me off. I'm thinking it might be the ghouls then, someone talked about one using an ore and riding in on a ship.
 
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